Aspen’s Transcript

On Survivor Identity

 The abuse in my case was only physical a handful of times. So, when I hear like 'survivor'- no, I have never, like- I have only on a few occasions, like feared for my life or really, truly been like nervous or scared physically. But there have been other threats to my career, um, my family, my friend- my friendships, um, my social life, reputation, et cetera, that have been really serious, to the point that I have chosen to leave the state twice because of this person.

Once, I left for two months, and now I'm moving permanently. So, in a weird way, it's like I'm a survivor of more social, emotional trauma. And I guess that seems like an inappropriate term to me, sometimes. It also took me many months and a handful of therapists who were telling- identifying, 'This is abusive, this trait is abusive, this incident is abusive', etc. before I accepted that. So I'm not really sure if I'm just not in a place to like, accept that I'm like, a survivor.

Yeah, and it's even weird for me- this is one of the other, like, self doubt things, it's even weird for me to be here right now because, again, when you ask, like, do you consider yourself a survivor? It's like, oh, come on. No, I know that there are women in this city that have had guns held to them- there are women in this city that have been actually killed by their abuser, and in this world. Like, I roll my eyes at my own self sometimes but, it is my experience, it is something that has ruined my life- temporarily, hopefully.

On Disenfranchised Grief

I think originally, a lot of people believed me, because I think they saw me change overnight and have this like acute response, so to speak, at the end of the relationship. So it's like a cycle. And my relationship fit perfectly, like, within time frames, even, of this cycle. And what is misleading about it, is that some of the absolute happiest days of my whole life, were also days where I was strangled. And so it doesn't look like abuse. It looks like me smiling on a wedding altar, you know? I was genuinely happy, in a weird way. I was ecstatic, overlooking really significant problems. Um-

The- the abuse became so severe at the end. And he was basically telling me he never loved me, he was never attracted to me, he was going to go sleep with this artist girl all summer and consider our marriage and this and that. I couldn't take it anymore. He like threatened to kill me while driving one day. He kept telling me that he wanted to have these conversations, and he loved me, and he cared about me. And every time we went to have a conversation, it was just like, him screaming at me to the point that I just left. And so, I think a lot of people at that time believed me that something was going on, but the more I started to unpack the entirety of the relationship, and realize that it was abusive throughout- you know, I mentioned an instance where he strangled me once- I started to realize that every day there was something.

And again, rarely was it physical, but he's a huge guy and it would just be sometimes like slamming things or screaming at me while he was driving and then like driving onto the rumble strip to be threatening. And people in my life are like, 'Really? Is that like abusive though, to drive on the rumble strip? And it's like, You weren't there, and he was like threatening to crash the car. And I later learned, I think one of the most reassuring things, and thank God for Willow for this, that that's actually a really common thing in abusive partners, that they'll use a vehicle to threaten you. And he did it all the time. And they only have like relationship discussions when they're behind the wheel because they're in control.

Um, so I've had a lot of friends that have like, very much so stepped back from me, including one woman who was in an abusive marriage and was given permission by her church to leave that marriage. And she still like, is friends with my ex and is like, 'Oh, but really?' Like, because it wasn't as bad as hers. Okay. Her husband was actually beating the crap out of her, you know. I have two friends that witnessed my ex shove me and that's some information I need for court. And they're like, 'Well, we saw it, but we don't want to be involved in an affidavit'. So it's- it's very complicated.

 And then there are other people that I've met that have been more validating of my experiences than I have of my own experiences. Things that they've been like, 'Oh, that's abusive'. 'Oh, he said what to you? That's so wrong'. And I- you know, it's things that sometimes, and this happened in our relationship, I would repeat verbatim things that he said, and people would have these like visceral, 'ew, gross' reactions to them and I would be like, 'Oh, no, he was just kidding', and they're like, ' Nnn- That's- nnn- that's not cool'. You know, that kind of thing.

On The Story of Domestic Violence

You know, the first couple of weeks that we knew each other, we were like texting back and forth- this is kind of right before the pandemic- uh, we had hung out and like interacted a couple of times, and I was clearly flirting with him and this and that. And he, we had this whole text conversation going that I later learned was a total lie. It was a total lie, like three months, four months of total lie.

And finally he was like, 'Oh, you know, if I had told you the truth, like you wouldn't have dated me.' And so again, like when people are looking at me from the outside, and we have hundreds of mutual friends, unfortunately me and this person, like, have very entwined lives. Nobody sees those things. He didn't leave a black and blue mark on my eye, but he lied to me for the first three months about who he was and what his career was and who, you know, who he had dated and everything- everything was a lie.

Um, the, the first Christmas that we were together, we had just said I love you to each other for the first time. And we were driving home back from his parents house along the shore of Lake Ontario. And you can see all those beautiful houses with like, the Christmas lights and stuff, and we were like being romantic and taking the scenic route and whatever. And, holding hands and, I remember us being like, so we are in love, but like, I want kids and you don't want kids. And I remember being like, I don't know. I'm- I'm nervous about pursuing this because like, I promised myself months ago that if I get in a relationship again, it's going to be the- the one, it's going to be the real deal. And so I knew I was like really in love with him at that point, and I loved his family. Everything about him was like checking out or all the boxes or whatever you want to say, except the kids thing. And he told me that he wasn't a hundred percent, but I was the right girl and let's just see where things go, things like that. And I- I just remember like really wanting to enjoy that, it was Christmas, my birthday's on Christmas, so it was like, I really enjoyed that evening and that night. And again, we had just said, I love you, and it was like super romantic and all these things, but I would go back to that girl and just be like, 'Follow your gut!' Like, this is before the abuse happened, this is the trauma bonding stage, this is the like, intense love. Like you're the right girl, you're the all- you're amazing. You're all these things. And I would tell that girl to like, not overlook that feeling.

And it wasn't long after that before I- actually it was just about two months after that, not even- I was also driving and we were going to go skiing with my- my family and he had never been skiing, snowboarding before and he wasn't mean, but he was like really sharp with me in the car and I remember it like just- it made me cry. I had like, talked over him or something like that, but like we were having this, I was explaining snowboarding to him and I was like excited about it or whatever, and I think he was nervous, and he was like meeting my dad, and all these things. And he just kind of like snapped at me, and it was super brief, but I remember being like, wow, I hate this feeling. No one's ever, like, barked at me like that before over, like, explaining something. I'd probably tell that girl to follow her gut.

But a lot of times when I look back on this, it's like, if I had done that to him, he would have flipped out. If I had said the same thing to him, it would have been this day ruined, day ruined. And so I, again, like in healing from this, you start to realize that there are so many times where if the shoe was on the other foot, it would absolutely not have been okay. If you had been the person that said that or did that instead, it would have absolutely not been okay. And he knows that. And it's, it's taken me a long time to accept that, like, he knows that.

Uh, what I want people who have not experienced domestic abuse like this, or narcissistic abuse, is that it's so real, and it is so confusing, and everything that I've read and what I've experienced- it takes years to unpack the nuances of how this abuse works, and how this, like, manipulation and control works.

My ex is very smart, he's incredibly smart. He knows what he's doing, and that's been like one of the hardest things to grapple with, is that this was a game from him- for him, from the beginning. And I- I- I'd cry at night, every day, wishing that it wasn't a game, because it was my life. It was- he was the love of my life, to this point. He still is like the person I love most. I see him in court and I still want to just like grab his hand, you know? And that's like a fool's errand sometimes, you know? To even think that, oh things could have been different because they- they couldn't have.

I think the hardest thing for me to let go of at this point is that, again, like the happiest days of my life were with this person. Who even on those happiest days, would do something harmful or those happiest days are part of this like narcissistic abuse cycle where they're like love bombing you, and telling you they want to marry you, and like you're the most perfect girl they've ever been with, and if 17 year old me could see me now, and like, um- you know getting their family to make you these like beautiful, handmade, personal gifts and like, you know, it was perfect.

But then again, on the flip side of that, there was times where he strangled me. There were times that he threw things. Every day he's angry about something. Acutely, aggressively angry about something. It didn't even always have to do with me. It could just be that the wind was blowing on our camping trip. Like, you know, it's just been really hard to process all of it because of how much I just like, let go or overlooked.

On Grief

Grief has really impacted this healing process. I grieve, like, I grieve the happiest time every day. I loved the life, the bigger picture life that we had. We did go on great camping trips and we- I loved going to his gigs and the after parties and the, you know, again, he made me laugh every single day. And I grieve that deeply. And I grieve the people that we had in our circle. Yeah. A year and a half ago, I had a totally different life and I grieve it all the time. And it's weird to grieve something that was really harming you. I didn't know- like, I didn't know how harmful it was until I walked away. Um, it is kind of like a drug in that way.

It's hard. I'm leaving the city because of the grief. I can't take it. We live a mile away from each other. I see him all the time. I grieve a lot of what could have been, which again is like really foolish, but I grieve not sticking up for myself sooner. I've learned that if I had, we would have never even dated. Cause that's the whole purpose. He looks for somebody that won't-

Um, I grieve- that was another thing I grieve- I grieve that I allowed a lot of BS to happen. You know, I told you earlier, he wanted me to get rid of some of these friends and told me he wouldn't marry me if I stayed friends with these people, who I was friends with for more than a decade. I wrote the letter, I ended friendships. Because my partner didn't like these people. And I don't know, it was just something I thought you did for your partner. I think some of my friends have gone through a lot with this.

My previous like boyfriend guy that I dated too was- we were never really truly in a relationship, but he was not much different, you know? And so that's another thing I grieve is like, this is a pattern and why is this a pattern? And so now my therapy has kind of changed directions and started to focus on like, not repeating this pattern and recognizing, you know- yeah, did I think I could take care of a depressed- a severely depressed person who's tried to commit suicide before? Yeah, because my dad was a severely depressed person who tried to commit suicide before.

So the insight is that I also am repeating a pattern and he felt like home.

On Affirmations

I know my experience. I know how I felt that night when he choked me. I know that it wasn't okay. Maybe he was drunk or whatever, but I know that it was scary. And I know that the time that he threatened to kill me was so scary, even though I hid it and like, 'I'm brave', but I was genuinely terrified. It's taken a lot of not my own voice, but voices like Maddie or other people from Willow, or even some of the other survivors from Willow, their voices, in group therapy and telling me like, 'Oh, yeah. Oh, well, that's the manipulation, or that's the, you know, coercion, or that's the gaslighting, or that's the like, pathological lying and, um- It's taken a lot of me just really trying to not gaslight my own self, again when they're like, 'Well, but it wasn't that bad. Like some people get angry and drive erratically and, you know, some people get angry and, you know, he, um, clearly was drunk so he didn't mean it or you know, um-'.

The only thing that I really want to keep gaslighting myself on is again, that idea that like, he did love me. I just want so badly to believe that he really did love me but I don't think he did. I don't know. I really cared about that person so much. Yeah, so I try to remind myself that, like, I am a lover. Like, I was a kindergarten teacher for ten years before this, and, um, I work with kids now, and I don't know. I just, I just want to, like, get over this so badly.

At this point now, it's like, 'You can do this'. I'm trying to just like, be my own hype man, you know, 'You're moving to Colorado. It's happening. Like I have to do this. I have to do it. Um, there's no turning back. Like I need to get away from this person'. But I have a lot of self talk about like, I'm never doing this again. I'm never dating. I haven't kissed a guy like- I- in a year, nothing. I am so disinterested. Um, I never want this to happen to me again to the point that like, if it's just me and my cat, that's cool too. So I'm trying to like, hype myself up.

On Support

Last fall, I was better than I am now. Um, one thing that I really love Maddie from Willow for, when I was doubting myself and like, how bad was it really? And she was like, well, you know what? What we see in trauma survivors is that they change their patterns. So, you've done everything you can to avoid your ex, you've left social scenes, you've ended mutual friendships, you've blocked people on Instagram- on social media, you've left the state, you're now moving out of state again, you've heeded his threats and warnings to like, not go near him, not contact his friends, not tell people about the abuse.

Those are signs of people who are afraid of somebody. Those are signs of people who are usually, you know, the victim that are leaving, that are, you know, trying to make peace with this person that was horrible to them and try to get them out of their life or only have them in their life in like a peaceful way. I was like, 'I don't know why I'm getting an order of protection. I haven't talked to him in months.' Like, you know, she was like, 'Yeah, that's how they continue coercion and control. That's so that you don't contact his family upon leaving. That's so that you don't contact his friends.

From Where I Speak

 I think I speak as somebody who overlooked a lot of red flags.

I speak as somebody who just loved this person beyond what was probably appropriate.

I really hope that I'm speaking as somebody who's going to overcome this. We'll see about that one.

Um, I speak as somebody who really wants the world to understand what narcissistic abuse is, and how it's somewhat predictable and cyclical.

And I also speak as somebody who really wants people to understand, in my experience anyway, there is so much more damage done in the emotional, psychological forms abuse- of abuse than the physical. Again, the physical things I've gotten over many months ago, but the psychological abuse and the trust issues, it's damning to my life.

I speak as somebody who wishes that everybody who knows someone who is going through something like this, or saying like 'He was abusive' or whatever and you might be rolling your eyes, or you might be questioning, because it's your friend, your brother, your, you know, your neighbor- the good guy. There really is so much more to this than you can understand. Nobody abuses their partner in broad daylight, or if they do, it's like so severe, like that's criminal, you know.

On Words of Care

It is really hard when you hear the kind of more cliched things of like, 'You got this', and 'It's not cyclical', and like 'Time will heal all wounds'. There's no healing journey pattern, like step one- do this, step two- do that, and now I'm a yogi, and now like- okay.

There will be days, weeks, months, even where you're like, yeah, I'm good. I got this. I got away. Like I'm a survivor, yada, yada, been there, got out, whatever. And then there's going to be days, a year later, where you just cry all day long, that this happened to you, or that you were a part of this. I would also say to be gentle with yourself. I engaged in what, you know, me and my therapist have identified as like reactive abuse. I've apologized to him, uh, profusely and I've apologized to myself. A million times, but I'm still really regretful. I don't know. There's still- yeah- I guess I would just say to, to other people, like there's going to be things that you do that are also not clean and pretty, and it's okay. This is a really messy process, do your best. But, it's okay. Um, yeah. And I hope the time cliche is true. [laughs] We'll see.

 

On The Healing Journey

Last fall, I was better than I am now, but it's when you start really digging deep in the therapy, and you get like, 90 days out, 4 months out, 5 months out, that you are realizing that there's such a bigger picture than like, 'Oh, my boyfriend cheated on me', um.

The winter was really dark. I've had suicidal thoughts. My birthday is Christmas Day and I remember on- we had that horrible snow storm in Buffalo and so, my parents live south of Buffalo- I couldn't get there. And um, I went shopping at Wegmans on East Ave and, um, bought like 200 worth of my favorite Wegmans items because I thought I was going to be alone in my apartment. And I thought it was going to be my last day alive.

 Um, and then I had these amazing friends that they didn't know, I just don't think they know to this day that I was having those thoughts, but they called me up and were like, 'Hey, like, for anyone who can get here, you know, cause of the storm, but for anybody who can get here, we're just going to have Christmas. Why don't you come spend Christmas Eve at our house?' And I slept on their couch and like, they even, like, ran around their house and got me all these little, like, cute white elephant secondhand gifts. And um, I spent Christmas with them and their family came over and it was like the best and it saved my life.

Um, the healing is absolutely not linear. Um, I left, you know, I left him cause I was like, 'Oh, I'm not putting up with this shit anymore', you know. Yeah, it's literally harder now, and it's really hard when you have to sit down with a lawyer and reread all the texts and ask a judge to subpoena more texts and you look back on it, and you're like, wow, I was a fucking idiot for being with this person.

 Again, once you start putting the pieces together, and it takes months and maybe even a year or more, it gets worse. And then you have these moments, like last night, I was like really close to like, forgiving him for everything because I understood that he's- I don't know, a product of probably abuse too. And, and so it's just, it's so confusing. It's so confusing. And I just, I really want people to understand that.

On Support

Yeah, the part of the healing process that has been most surprising is just how- how much of my life I've really had to tear apart. It has been not just this relationship, again, I've deleted- blocked- unfriended- not spoken to in public- dozens of people that I just feel like I can't trust. People were like bringing things back to him and it was fueling his, 'I'm taking you to court, blah, blah, blah'.

And then it goes beyond this relationship, where you have to start taking apart the last relationship, 'Okay. That guy also convinced me that we should be in an open relationship, and why did I stay with him through that?' And, you know, then you go back even further, 'Oh, like the first guy I ever truly loved, like, slept with my friend, and like, why, like-' then you go back even further, and you're like, 'Oh, the guy that I messed around with in college', and this and that, 'and he was also not great.'

And then you go, who was before that? And you're like, 'Daddy-O, my dad'. Love my dad, not a great guy, gonna be honest, like- he's not a terrible person, but yeah, he cheated on my mom, he has anger issues. He lived through a traumatic event as a child and didn't get help for it and my grandpa was a pastor, he was like, 'Pray it away', you know, all that kind of stuff and, so you really, yeah, you end up getting all the way back to childhood. So you have to go all the way back down to those kinds of memories to be like, 'Oh, that's why I'll accept that kind of treatment from a guy. Like that was my dad.' Like, you know, who's a great dad, not a great partner. Yeah. You just, you really have to take apart more than you think you do. And, I think that's, you know, part of the reason that I'm leaving.

I- I- I love Rochester. I absolutely love this city. I have always enjoyed living here. But it is just too small right now, and I've been afraid- I've been like afraid to go anywhere, ever- for a year. So yeah, I guess I want people to know that if you're healing from this, sometimes you- you might have to literally cut away all the fat, all the people, all the- anyone extraneous, all the mutual friends. I cut it down, I got like five friends right now, and they've been my friends for- every one of them has been my friend for more than a decade, and three of the five of them have been people that I've worked with as well, or lived with, and they know me better than anybody in the world, and they know, and have seen what I've gone through. And they're just like, real, salt of the earth people. And you just need those five people. And so, if you have the option to get out of it, that's helped me immensely. Um, and it's the one thing I've been looking forward to for months. That's a positive in my life is like, Colorado, Colorado, Colorado- I've got these five friends in Colorado. I wrote to my best friend, I wrote this week and the coming weeks are going to be so hard, but I'm right on the cusp of something so liberating and so joyous.